AvsJen

The Wonderful World of Politics

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Love politics?  Here's a handy thread for all of our American and international political chats. :D

PS-> Keep it civil and respectful Avs friends!

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I wasn't sure where to put this as I didn't want it to be a partisan thing, but this is just a completely scumbagish thing to do.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/they-tried-to-make-money-off-it-colorado-gop-leader-busted-for-fundraising-off-of-baseball-shooting/

 

Trying to make political gains to try and turn that into monetary donations is a pretty freaking awful thing to do. Regardless of political party you don't try and capitalize on something like this by asking people for money. 

As an aside this shooting had nothing to do with the left. It had everything to do with a piece of crap person who wanted to harm others. I don't care what their political beliefs were, this wasn't an act carried out on behalf of anyone other than this one person. There are sick people full of hate voting for all parties. There is hateful and violent rhetoric spouted by idiots on every side of the aisle. And for the vast vast majority of people this sort of stuff is intolerable, tiresome and completely ridiculous.

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I can see where he's coming from with this:

“This issue is a difficult one for me. As a former Columbine student I have experienced a mass shooting and lost friends,” he added. “I also saw political terrorist acts, like this one, used in Iraq as a way to silence the citizens of that country. I never want to see that here in America. I think it is important to stand up against them immediately.”

But you can leave it at that and not ask for money.  People will donate to the cause that they want you don't need to turn it into a fundraiser, and despite his claims that is what he's doing.   He's in a pretty conservative district so I doubt he'll be voted out unless another republican runs against him.   But its not my district so not much I can do.  

 

that said the left fanned the flames with the shooter.  that they keep talking about violence and making it "okay" and giving excuses that there are pages and pages of examples of them calling for violence, you can't be surprised when someone follows up.   Was he nuts? absolutly- you have to be to have that death wish,  but to think that the politics and rhetoric didn't have some effect when you have him asking whos on the field? thats sticking you head in the sand.   

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8 minutes ago, grizzlygoalie said:

that said the left fanned the flames with the shooter.  that they keep talking about violence and making it "okay" and giving excuses that there are pages and pages of examples of them calling for violence, you can't be surprised when someone follows up.   Was he nuts? absolutly- you have to be to have that death wish,  but to think that the politics and rhetoric didn't have some effect when you have him asking whos on the field? thats sticking you head in the sand.   

And then there are all the times the leader of the Republican party incited violence.  This is the last time it should need to be said - it is NOT just the left.

 

http://mashable.com/2016/03/12/trump-rally-incite-violence/#31PpBFYeTiqq

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http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/06/903362-actual-resident-ga06-tells-media-dems-karen-handel-really-won-special-election/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Owned&utm_term=ijamerica&utm_campaign=ods&utm_content=Politics

Pretty much sums up why Dems will keep losing.

"Trump isn't popular in this district.  But you know whats alot less popular? Riots, Morons in Black masks with Clubs...and the Lefts braty insistence that it deserves a do-over"

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So with the Travel Ban reinstated until it can be heard.

It looks like the Supreme court has issued a 1-2 punch to Dems with rumors of Justice Kennedy retiring.  Long considered the Swing vote, he would be leavign in a time where Trump would get to appoint his 2nd Justice.  The real question will be what tricks will the Dems pull to prevent this from happening, and can they hold out for 7ish years. 

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I'm not a fan of forcing unreasonably high minimum wages. I look at CO's minimum wage hike and I worry for towns like Grand Junction, Delta, Montose, etc. There isn't a lot of money there. It's going to force hardship on small businesses. That in turn eliminates employees and the snowball grows bigger.

I understand what they are trying to do but I don't believe it's the answer.

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10 minutes ago, 1bauhaus1 said:

I'm not a fan of forcing unreasonably high minimum wages. I look at CO's minimum wage hike and I worry for towns like Grand Junction, Delta, Montose, etc. There isn't a lot of money there. It's going to force hardship on small businesses. That in turn eliminates employees and the snowball grows bigger.

I understand what they are trying to do but I don't believe it's the answer.

Yep, been to Granby and Winter park a few times, and talked to a few restaurant owners,  every one is worried about it,  1 is talking about closing down and retiring to Florida(they've been talking about it for years but this might push them to finally do it)  When you run off a single digit margin you can't raise your wages by 20% and not raise your resales.  and do that, and guess what? you lose customers because that big national chain everyone "hates"  yea their burgers is still only $10.00 while yours is up to $15 or $20. 

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Exactly. Burgers here in Glenwood Springs are already $15 for a cheese burger. To add mushroom or bacon and you are looking at an $18 dollar burger. 

And waiters are cashing out big time. I run payroll for several big restaurants in this area and they pay their wait staff minimum wage of 6.30 an hour. But these people are bringing home some big time tips. An average waiter will work 65 hours in 2 weeks which is a base of $400.00. Ok that isn't much but their tips are $1,020.00 over those two weeks. That's over $21 an hour. Then if you raise their salary to the new minimum in 5 years, which for waiters is $9.00 an hour, that means they are now making almost $25.00 an hour. (This of coarse doesn't include cash tips that waiters don't claim as well as the increase in tips because the price of food goes up.)

Now for a cook, you are making less than the wait staff so now employers feel obligated to raise the salary of their cooks and managers, meaning higher food prices. Then you just hope you still keep the same volume of customers but probably not. Now you have to lay off employees to keep food prices down. It's a vicious cycle. 

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Just now, 1bauhaus1 said:

Exactly. Burgers here in Glenwood Springs are already $15 for a cheese burger. To add mushroom or bacon and you are looking at an $18 dollar burger. 

And waiters are cashing out big time. I run payroll for several big restaurants in this area and they pay their wait staff minimum wage of 6.30 an hour. But these people are bringing home some big time tips. An average waiter will work 65 hours in 2 weeks which is a base of $400.00. Ok that isn't much but their tips are $1,020.00 over those two weeks. That's over $21 an hour. Then if you raise their salary to the new minimum in 5 years, which for waiters is $9.00 an hour, that means they are now making almost $25.00 an hour. (This of coarse doesn't include cash tips that waiters don't claim as well as the increase in tips because the price of food goes up.)

Now for a cook, you are making less than the wait staff so now employers feel obligated to raise the salary of their cooks and managers, meaning higher food prices. Then you just hope you still keep the same volume of customers but probably not. Now you have to lay off employees to keep food prices down. It's a vicious cycle. 

And then they can try to compete against say Mcdonalds, who is automating the front counter so you have cooks, and then the person who puts the burger in the bag.

Or Red robin whos slowly getting rid of waiters so you order on the Ipad thing, and then a runner brings you your food 

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15 minutes ago, 1bauhaus1 said:

Exactly. Burgers here in Glenwood Springs are already $15 for a cheese burger. To add mushroom or bacon and you are looking at an $18 dollar burger. 

And waiters are cashing out big time. I run payroll for several big restaurants in this area and they pay their wait staff minimum wage of 6.30 an hour. But these people are bringing home some big time tips. An average waiter will work 65 hours in 2 weeks which is a base of $400.00. Ok that isn't much but their tips are $1,020.00 over those two weeks. That's over $21 an hour. Then if you raise their salary to the new minimum in 5 years, which for waiters is $9.00 an hour, that means they are now making almost $25.00 an hour. (This of coarse doesn't include cash tips that waiters don't claim as well as the increase in tips because the price of food goes up.)

Now for a cook, you are making less than the wait staff so now employers feel obligated to raise the salary of their cooks and managers, meaning higher food prices. Then you just hope you still keep the same volume of customers but probably not. Now you have to lay off employees to keep food prices down. It's a vicious cycle. 

The conversation then needs to be whether or not tipped employees should be subject to the minimum wage (and not whether or not the minimum wage should be raised to a livable wage).  If traditionally tipped employees are now subject to the minimum wage, then you let patrons know, and remove tipping <-- there's one restaurant in town that we go to a lot that did this for separate reasons, the cost of food is relatively higher but tipping is discouraged, so at the end of the day, the total meal isn't more expensive.  If you raise pay via enforced minimum wages and remove tipping, the overall cost of the food/service doesn't increase.  If tipped employees are exempt from the minimum wage, then their base salary remains low, the cost to the owner doesn't increase with increased minimum wages, and the overall cost of food/service also doesn't increase.  Notably, whenever minimum wage hikes get discussed, the restaurant servers often vote to remain exempt at higher-end restaurants.  At less expensive chain-type restaurants, the servers would probably prefer a minimum wage but they are losing their jobs to mechanization anyway.

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4 minutes ago, 31AVSFan said:

The conversation then needs to be whether or not tipped employees should be subject to the minimum wage (and not whether or not the minimum wage should be raised to a livable wage).  If traditionally tipped employees are now subject to the minimum wage, then you let patrons know, and remove tipping <-- there's one restaurant in town that we go to a lot that did this for separate reasons, the cost of food is relatively higher but tipping is discouraged, so at the end of the day, the total meal isn't more expensive.  If you raise pay via enforced minimum wages and remove tipping, the overall cost of the food/service doesn't increase.  If tipped employees are exempt from the minimum wage, then their base salary remains low, the cost to the owner doesn't increase with increased minimum wages, and the overall cost of food/service also doesn't increase.  Notably, whenever minimum wage hikes get discussed, the restaurant servers often vote to remain exempt at higher-end restaurants.  At less expensive chain-type restaurants, the servers would probably prefer a minimum wage but they are losing their jobs to mechanization anyway.

you do realize there are other employees right?

You do understand its been proven that raising the cost of doing business on businesses doing single digit profit margins kills business and has more people laid off right?  why do you think more and more restaurants are going automated? So your either pushing for more people to be laid off so the business can keep their costs down.

Or you want the businesses to have to raise their resales and thus not be competitive with large chains that can asorbe a local cost increase and thus go out of business. - and this may not be baucse of bad products or services like a free market would push, but more size matters and thats it. 

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26 minutes ago, grizzlygoalie said:

you do realize there are other employees right?

Really? And here I thought restaurants consisted of an owner and servers and that was it.  Gee, it's amazing I can even form full sentences.  I still cannot figure out why people wanted these types of conversations and responses put somewhere out of general view.  

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1 minute ago, 31AVSFan said:

Really? And here I thought restaurants consisted of an owner and servers and that was it.  Gee, it's amazing I can even form full sentences.  I still cannot figure out why people wanted these types of conversations and responses put somewhere out of general view.  

Again stop playing the Victim jeeze.

 

Would you expect your department to stay in business if it required everyone to make atleast 30% more of the lowest paid employee(counting TA's and Grad students getting stippends)   Would they have to raise their resales(Tuition/Fees ect)  Sure Prof's could vote from being exempt and a few TA's might as well, but how would your department handle the raise in rates?  When considering say UND or UW just across state lines doesn't have to raise its pay for its employees.  do you think they would see more applications and those for your school would fall some?  How long could that go on with out your school closing, or some how come up with a product deamed 30% more  valuable. 

 

Of course even then those who barely make much, wouldn't be able to afford the price increase, and those its "helping" buy giving more money aren't any better off as costs of going to school are increased as well.  - then add in that every business is getting those cost increases in payroll, and not only is school more expensive, but so are their utilities, a burger, gallon of milk ect. 

 

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I'm not a victim - nor do I ever feel like one while posting on this forum.  Why do you keep calling me one?  Do you intend for me to be one?  

 

For argument's sake I'll spell it out for you - but I won't engage in a false analogy comparing restaurants to universities.

  • 1bauhaus1 pointed out that tipped servers already make a livable wage - and really a pretty great one - even though their base salary is below the required minimum wage.
  • Increasing tipped employees salaries via a forced minimum wage would only place an unnecessary burden on the restaurant's bottom line...tipped employees wouldn't see a large salary increase as most of their income is tips, and the restaurant would have to increase prices, resulting in the vicious circle he mentioned.
  • So my argument was that tipped employees should be exempt from minimum wages.  <-- it's in italics so you don't miss it
  • If tipped employees aren't exempt from minimum wages, then restaurants could raise minimum wages for everyone (i.e., including all those employees I don't know that exist) but not pass that added expense onto the customer via removing tipping all together.  <-- this is an alternative to my point in italics above
  • If the point of the minimum wage is to be a livable wage - tipped employees that are already making a minimum wage don't need the help from a forced minimum.
  • Yes, I think that the other employees at the restaurants (like dishwashers and cooks) should make a livable wage and increasing their salaries at the expense of the customer (or the total take-home profits of the CEO in the case of large chains) makes sense to me.
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1 minute ago, 31AVSFan said:

I'm not a victim - nor do I ever feel like one while posting on this forum.  Why do you keep calling me one?  Do you intend for me to be one?  

 

For argument's sake I'll spell it out for you - but I won't engage in a false analogy comparing restaurants to universities.

  • 1bauhaus1 pointed out that tipped servers already make a livable wage - and really a pretty great one - even though their base salary is below the required minimum wage.
  • Increasing tipped employees salaries via a forced minimum wage would only place an unnecessary burden on the restaurant's bottom line...tipped employees wouldn't see a large salary increase as most of their income is tips, and the restaurant would have to increase prices, resulting in the vicious circle he mentioned.
  • So my argument was that tipped employees should be exempt from minimum wages.  <-- it's in italics so you don't miss it
  • If tipped employees aren't exempt from minimum wages, then restaurants could raise minimum wages for everyone (i.e., all those employees I don't know that exist) but not pass that added expense onto the customer via removing tipping all together.  <-- this is an alternative to my point in italics above
  • If the point of the minimum wage is to be a livable wage - tipped employees that are already making a minimum wage don't need the help from a forced minimum.
  • Yes, I think that the other employees at the restaurants (like dishwashers and cooks) should make a livable wage and increasing their salaries at the expense of the customer (or the total take-home profits of the CEO in the case of large chains) makes sense to me.

Then I suggest you stop acting like a victim, its really that easy, you make everything out to be a person attack.

 

And you don't seem to realize that just because some employees pay is not going up - doesn't pay for the pay of the others going up.  Costs are still going up.   you also don't seem to understand that those hurt with this are small businesses.  Large companies can eat that higher cost short term,  a small company whos owner is not making millions can't afford to when the business is working off single digit profit margins.  And once they all close their doors, then guess what,  those big chains will still raise prices to cover the costs then, only they won't have the compition of the small guys to limit it.   Much like when Walmart goes into a small town - sells many tings at a loss to squeeze out the mom and pop shops, only then to raise prices to make a profit. 

 

It also needs to be noted that minuman skills get min wage.  begin a dishwasher or a busy boy are not ment to be careers to live off but first jobs for teens or kids to get through school. 

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Do you actively try to misunderstand what I write (oh, is this what I'm a victim of :lol:)? And yes, I should know better. 

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Well how do you expect a small business that operates on say a 10% profit margin to increase their payroll by 20% with out raising their resales? 

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I don't because it's an overly simplistic hypothetical. Or see my last bullet point above. 

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lol Economics is pretty straight forward. you have to bring in more then you spend to stay in business.  rise in cost will either force resales up, or have to cut those costs(payroll) to keep your margins.  

Wonder what would happen to the UMN system if all its low level employees were paid above their market value... 

 

 

But in other fun news - CNN is cracking.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/reporter-unloads-deputy-press-secretary-white-house-briefing-205320836.html

Apperanlty calling them out for not using sources, or using 1 unnamed source and continuing to be wrong(5 major stories this month alone) is inflammatory. 

But according to one Producer, they know they're BS but hey their ratings are high because the uninformed are eating it up. 

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I would be interested to know how many of the spending decisions were already locked in and how many were a result of Trump's 'pressure'.

Quote

Many of the 2017 spending decisions that together form the increase announced Wednesday were made before Trump’s improbable November victory.

More partial winning, maybe!

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11 minutes ago, ojb said:

I would be interested to know how many of the spending decisions were already locked in and how many were a result of Trump's 'pressure'.

More partial winning, maybe!

From this and a few others it sounds like others were committed to increasing spending, but not many were getting to the 2%GDP,  but now 25 out of 28 are committed and overall it looks like they're getting to 4.x% GDP

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/01/news/nato-spending-donald-trump/index.html

While CNN is trying to say it was in the works, the increase has grown larger with Trump and if you go to NATOs numbers them selves, the pridcitions on spending have been altered 4 times since Trump was elected(3 times since he took office) 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-defence-idUSKBN19J0ZW

Also NATO members pledged to get to 2% before Trump came to office by 2024,  It has since been updated to 2020 since he took office, and 3 nations are set to get there beforehand by 2018.

 

Trump also called for the national plans so each ally can show how they are increasing spending to show it has a real difference rather then paying more or something. and can be held accountable, and neighbor nations can work together to compliment each other.  - Something Nato Adopted and the plans will be issued in December and February they will be approved by NATO as a whole

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So Drumpf has at least four (fake) Time Magazine front covers at his golf lounges.

HAHAHAHA

#FakeNews

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